Monomakh,
I haven't searched the archives yet. Does your own parish, If BCC, serve Matins? How many OCA parishes serve matins? How many ACROD parishes? The problem is more widespread than just the BCC.
As to on verses of the antiphons.....sigh.... I had hoped that there would be restoration of the full antiphons. Sadly in our church's history there has bee one verse of the antiphons for far too long. The last 100 years seems to be too far back in our church's history to find REGULARLY sung multiple verses of the antiphons. Yes maybe 1% of our parishes did sing all three antiphons with all three verses on a REGULAR basis.
Too often we here seem to be like the three blind men describing an elephant based upon the limited information we can gather by what we experience. To extrapolate our parish experience to all the Metropolia will always be incomplete. Some parishes celebrate a fuller cycle of liturgical services than do others. This seems more a function of the priests (and to some small extent the laity) in the individual parishes. Would that our Bishops mandate better consistency in the celebration of Liturgies throughout our Eparchies!!! {oh wait, they did and many rebelled!!!} Would that our Bishops followed the Orthodox celebration of the liturgical cycle. Would that all BCC's wish for such a renewal!
To call this restoration akin to the "Democratic People's Republic" of North Korea is somewhat misleading and extreme. Perhaps you could cite when in our history as a church the people (laity) have ever had so much say in how the liturgy is celebrated?
This, my unworthy $.0002 opinion,
Steve
Wednesday, March 21, 2007
more brotherly love from Byzcath.org.....
A poster at byzcath.org "Etnick" wrote this recently,
"Can you join me for vespers this Saturday? Oh! I forgot! Vespers is only celebrated in 1% of BCC churches. (I was being generous with 1%) Good luck with watered down Byzantine Liturgy!"
Enough with this BS posturing about watered down liturgies!!! Geeeez! Does byzcath.org endorse such statements? It seems so, since by and large there is a blatant bias regarding allowing such posts while suppressing posts which favor any of the revisions or opinions supporting them. There are most likely more than 1% of BCC parishes that REGULARLY celebrate vespers. Not every Orthodox parish is a model of perfection compared to each BCC parish. Etnick seems to be quite insulated in his commentary toward the BCC on byzcath.org which he admits to having left for the Orthodox Church. Are we remaining BCC's to stand by idly with this sort of attack? NO! If we dislike the changes to the Liturgy we must remain BCC! If we all run away from our parishes all we will succeed in doing is hastening the collapse of the Byzantine Cathollic Church. If we truly love our church we should stick to it and pray that our Bishops will undertake to correct some of the mistakes (and the misgivings) in regard to the recent revision of our Divine Liturgy. Overall, their hearts are in the right place, it was more the manner in which the revision was presented (or not represented) to the laity which caused such a problem.
For a balanced, moderated board(Byzcath.org) , this seems to be the usual tone of lately of the more strident posters who have agendas and are seeming allowed free reign to post such diatribes. So much for balance and Christian charity on byzcath.org!....
"Can you join me for vespers this Saturday? Oh! I forgot! Vespers is only celebrated in 1% of BCC churches. (I was being generous with 1%) Good luck with watered down Byzantine Liturgy!"
Enough with this BS posturing about watered down liturgies!!! Geeeez! Does byzcath.org endorse such statements? It seems so, since by and large there is a blatant bias regarding allowing such posts while suppressing posts which favor any of the revisions or opinions supporting them. There are most likely more than 1% of BCC parishes that REGULARLY celebrate vespers. Not every Orthodox parish is a model of perfection compared to each BCC parish. Etnick seems to be quite insulated in his commentary toward the BCC on byzcath.org which he admits to having left for the Orthodox Church. Are we remaining BCC's to stand by idly with this sort of attack? NO! If we dislike the changes to the Liturgy we must remain BCC! If we all run away from our parishes all we will succeed in doing is hastening the collapse of the Byzantine Cathollic Church. If we truly love our church we should stick to it and pray that our Bishops will undertake to correct some of the mistakes (and the misgivings) in regard to the recent revision of our Divine Liturgy. Overall, their hearts are in the right place, it was more the manner in which the revision was presented (or not represented) to the laity which caused such a problem.
For a balanced, moderated board(Byzcath.org) , this seems to be the usual tone of lately of the more strident posters who have agendas and are seeming allowed free reign to post such diatribes. So much for balance and Christian charity on byzcath.org!....
Tuesday, March 13, 2007
A Heartfelt Post on ByzCath.org
"Brethren in Risen Christ, our Life and Saviour,
Invited in April 2005 by a noble sister in Christ, I joined this forum, where I found a fine place for expressing in writing a few thoughts, prayers as well.
I have no idea how, but this forum, the only where I post sometimes, transformed slowly and I could not define it how is now. But it is not more that fine place.
However, I do know that valuable members began to visit it more rare, being bittered by certain aspects such as adversity between Catholic and Orthodox, or being bittered by the discussions upon the revised Divine Liturgy etc. etc.
Members who contributed with their love to this forum.
Therefore, I, a nothingness, dare to remind you all these words:
Quote:
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.
(John 13, 34-35, NIV)
As you already know, love is a commandment, not an option. Even if this board is a virtual one, we must care of every word, for we will answer before our Master for every word.
We all need the mercy of God.
I hope that this forum will promote the unity between the Sisters Churches, and foremost of all will testify the Risen Christ.
Are we disciples of Lord Jesus Christ?
Remembering now a gentle Saint, Saint Isaac the Syrian, I say with all heart:
May God fill your souls with Eternal Life! Amen & Amin!
In Risen Christ <><
Brother Marian+"
I could not have said it any better!!!!
Marian is seeing the forum from the eyes of a non-American( Eastern European) perspective. We have become so accustomed to venting our feelings about the changes in the Pittsburgh Metropolia that we forget how our brethren around the world see us.
Invited in April 2005 by a noble sister in Christ, I joined this forum, where I found a fine place for expressing in writing a few thoughts, prayers as well.
I have no idea how, but this forum, the only where I post sometimes, transformed slowly and I could not define it how is now. But it is not more that fine place.
However, I do know that valuable members began to visit it more rare, being bittered by certain aspects such as adversity between Catholic and Orthodox, or being bittered by the discussions upon the revised Divine Liturgy etc. etc.
Members who contributed with their love to this forum.
Therefore, I, a nothingness, dare to remind you all these words:
Quote:
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.
(John 13, 34-35, NIV)
As you already know, love is a commandment, not an option. Even if this board is a virtual one, we must care of every word, for we will answer before our Master for every word.
We all need the mercy of God.
I hope that this forum will promote the unity between the Sisters Churches, and foremost of all will testify the Risen Christ.
Are we disciples of Lord Jesus Christ?
Remembering now a gentle Saint, Saint Isaac the Syrian, I say with all heart:
May God fill your souls with Eternal Life! Amen & Amin!
In Risen Christ <><
Brother Marian+"
I could not have said it any better!!!!
Marian is seeing the forum from the eyes of a non-American( Eastern European) perspective. We have become so accustomed to venting our feelings about the changes in the Pittsburgh Metropolia that we forget how our brethren around the world see us.
Wednesday, March 07, 2007
Old Church Slavonic, a lost language......almost
Slowly, it seems, there is an immutable force driving a noble church language into the realm of a truly dead language. This force is actually the force of many individuals who actively and passively do not care for this once prolific language used in the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches of the Slavic variety. The reasoning given for not using it is that "no one understands it" or " we never sing it". of course both lines of reasoning are self fulfilling. By not using a language, it will automatically die out.
It becomes more frustrating when a younger generation wishes to learn this language and its beauty while an older generation looks askance and dismisses anyone who wants to learn it.
Why learn Old Church Slavonic? We have translations in English now so there is no more need to bother with that 'dead' language anymore. While we are trying to kill the language, we are at the same time desperately preserving the music which was set originally to that language!!! The irony! If there was truly a desire to rid our church of Slavonic, then why bother to keep a musical tradition which utilised the multisyllabic nature of Slavonic? It seems the answer has more to do with a hierarchy that cares not to know the language than the faithful who still long for hearing the Liturgy in the language of their ancestors.
It becomes more frustrating when a younger generation wishes to learn this language and its beauty while an older generation looks askance and dismisses anyone who wants to learn it.
Why learn Old Church Slavonic? We have translations in English now so there is no more need to bother with that 'dead' language anymore. While we are trying to kill the language, we are at the same time desperately preserving the music which was set originally to that language!!! The irony! If there was truly a desire to rid our church of Slavonic, then why bother to keep a musical tradition which utilised the multisyllabic nature of Slavonic? It seems the answer has more to do with a hierarchy that cares not to know the language than the faithful who still long for hearing the Liturgy in the language of their ancestors.
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