Monday, October 30, 2006

C'mon people! Where's the strong posts of protest? It's so easy to derail a thread that has such promise like this one. Is outrage that there is less outrage! Burn those calories in angry protest!!! Raise your blood pressure over an issue you have no real control over! Send your checks for Fr. Serge's book. Read it through and through. Run to the Orthodox church where everything is perfect! Don't lose steam 3 was going so strong, what happened?

While "on Eagles Wings" in being set to prostopinije tone 9, make the full revision and translate it into Latin! Revise the proposed liturgy revision with your own "hit parade" of cover versions to suit every fancy.

Seriously, this thread started off with a well thought out proposition (of which I don't agree with all the points), and like most threads on this topic of topics has degenerated into the usual silliness surrounding this debate.

in response to the original post:
1) after telling your priest you don't want the DL revised, what can he do that you haven't already done? Withholding your tithe will only close your parish faster.
2) Write you Eparch first before step 1. There is more at stake.
3) Perhaps this should be step 1.
4) presuming you obtain actual copies of the proposed liturgy rather than initial documents which can and will be disputed. Little litanies were lost in Parma/Van nuys back in the 70's folks.
5) support Fr Serge's efforts to control our heirarchs and buy his book with the money you saved by not tithing.
6) when the revised liturgy arrives in your parish, take time to actually try it before you throw it away. The advice given in the original post amounts to 'don't vote in November, the outcome won't change'.

Yes our dear priests will likely have no choice in the matter but close the parish because their parishioners left without first seeing what the change was really about. As to speaking out with impunity, I know from experience that it does come back to haunt you. Will it be "too late" once the revision comes out? There has been change before , there will continue to be change after.

One can already check out other churches without waiting for the revision. If you are anxious to leave the Pittsburgh Metropolia for Orthodox jurisdictions, don't let the spectre of a translation change get in your way.


Tuesday, October 24, 2006

More thoughts on Revised Liturgy Forum

Forty two years ago, a major change was made to our liturgy, did we have a say in it? How many people know who was on the commision then? Does anybody remember when the changes were promulgated? It helps that then, we did not have the internet to hyper rapidly speed news, opinions, and counter opinions into households and parishes within the Metropolia of Pittsburgh.

Today we see a sad recurrence of distrust within the Metropolia tearing our ailing church apart. In this sub forum, The Revised Divine Liturgy there has been a strong anti IEMC/IELC/MCI sentiment shown toward any pro IEMC/IELC/MCI posts. Two stubborn divergent camps have formed, with a lack of charity growing each day as the debate grows more personal.

Have we forgotton the painful experiences of our past? No. But we seem to repeat them nonetheless. While posters on both side of the issue make claim and counter claim, watchers from many churches, Catholic and Orthodox, look on in amazement as we tear each other apart verbally, rather than build each other up. Sadly there have been a number of priests caught up in both sides of this debate who have showed a lack of charity at times. I do not use the word lightly given that I too have been sometimes less than charitable in my posts, and have been admonished for it by the admin.

One side claims our liturgy never changes. The other counters that it has always changed over the centuries. Both sides are correct.

I used to enjoy browsing before The Revised Divine Liturgy forum appeared.

Two posts caught my attention to this:

[quote]This thread instead of being an informative discussion of church, has degraded into attacks on personal character and unfounded accusations. Instead of proving a point, undo enemies to any efforts are being further created. Rather than have this futile exercise continue I am closing this thread.

I am deeply disappointed in the matter that things have been represented on this thread.

Father Anthony+ [/quote]

and by Admin:

[quote]First point:

:Jeff wrote:
" should probably START by convincing the bishops that your request for a broader review comes from honest interest and willingness to help."

Such a statement is offensive and I demand that you offer an immediate apology to the entire Forum community.

There is no one who is participating in this discussion who does not have an honest interest and a willingness to serve our Church. Never, ever conclude that principled disagreement by fellow Christians amounts to dishonesty and unwillingness to serve the Church. [/quote]

After valiantly making his point time and again amid the animosty shown toward his knowledge by some members of the forum, I feel Jeff certainly owes me no apology as a member of the forum, unless you feel that I am not part of the "entire Forum community". There is great frustration on all sides of an issue that lacks clear resolution from our heirarchs who should be leading our church.

Even when any liturgical and music changes are promulgated there is always the possibility of further change. If there weren't a possibility of change, there wouldn't/couldn't have been any changes implemented ever in the past. Is our Liturgy exactly (as in identical in every word action and note) the same as was celebrated 100 years ago?500 years? 40 years?

My worthless use of bytes on the internet,